Bomber escort help

[BigB]

Figured I'd reach out to you guys for some help and maybe get a little chatter going on around
here... 

Last night in MA I was in a P51, escorting ( or attempting to.. lol ) Daddog who was in B26's.
The question I have is, what is the "best" position for me to be in when escort and why?
My thoughts last night were to be a bit high ( for some E ), and a bit behind ( for sight picture ).
Thus should a bandit engage I could slash down and either smoke him or at least spook him off the
bomber box. I varied from 1.5K to sometimes 3.5K off of Daddog. While this worked well for sight picture,
I have a feeling that maybe it's too far off. ( The 109 that split the difference and smoked DD's drone
confirmed this ) If I got closer to DD, say 1.0K to 1.5K it felt too close, but maybe due to where I was
situating myself? I tried circling DD a bit, but felt if I was in the wrong spot in my circle at the wrong time
DD could get wacked.. So.... again.. any thoughts on what is the better distance and location relative to the
bomber box to be in ?  Thanks in advance for your help.. Just honestly trying to learn all I can...

 .... BigB...

P.S... Thanks to Daddog, Drone and Droptine for flying a few with me last night, I had a blast !   

[Drone]

Excellent question!

Since I only have my phone to type on for most of the day, I'll just say a couple short notes and elaborate later.

First. The is no global ' best' position. It varies based on bomber type, escort type, adversary type, alt,...etc.

And I'm sure many others have thoughts, too.

In your example, I would be above and a little behind, but not by more than 2k out.

My 2¢.

[Drone]

Ahh.. back on a real keyboard..

Ok.. Thinking about your question a little more,  I think that if you are the only escort, then, yes, above and behind is going to be the 'best' place for you.  I still think you want to stay within 2k, knowing that that puts you in  a position to cover anything co-alt and below and all sides in a fast enough fashion.

If you were much farther out than that, you'll be leaving some windows where guys can slip in.. as you noticed.

This is also assuming that if your enemy is above and behind you, you and your charge are both probably screwed.

I might point out that escorts over Europe kept their speed up  and flew a zig zag pattern above the bombers.  Cutting back throttle and flying in formation makes for pretty pictures, but you need all the E you can to keep the baddies off the buffs.

Now, if you have several escorts, you'll want a lead sweep to flush the enemy out and get them away from the bomber's path. They can also report back enemy strength  so the remaining escorts can plan accordingly.

Being a good escort pilot is one of the most difficult tasks for a fighter pilot, IMHO.  It is inherent to want to kill what you're shooting at when, in fact, your job is to apply enough force to dissuade the enemy from attacking the bombers.  Take a shot or two until they break their attack on your charge.  Then you let them go and stay with the bombers.  VERY hard to remember to do.

I cannot tell you how often, as a bomber pilot, I've seen 10 escorts dive after a single 109 or 190, leaving the bombers to be shredded by a few other fighters moments later.  I've also flown through bomber formations specifically to pull the escorts after me.  It's a tough job.

Anyway, I'd like to see what others have to say about escorting too.  Hope this is stuff you were looking for.

Again, good question!

 

[BigB]

Thanks Drone !... and thanks for the feedback !

Definately helps... Upon further reflection, it makes sense your comments about plane
type ( both yours and eny ) having alot to do with it. In a more TnB type ride you could
and should probably stay a bit closer (?) were as in a good BnZ ride you proabably need a bit
more room to get your zoom on. 

Also makes a bit of sense if I read your thoughts correctly as to why I could not find a
"comfortable" position to just hang out in. As I ponder a bit more I am seeing that
the constant reading of the sight picture and making almost continous adjustments is what you
actually have to do to be effective. In other words there is no perfect place to just contantly "be"
in a purely dynamic 3D enviroment. You are just contantly adjusting the best you can to be in the best
position possible as things change and hopefully the timing works out. 

Hmmm.... scary, you mean some of this stuff is starting to make sense to me !! 
( only took a year..LOL..)

Back to sweeping the hanger... Thanks again...

...B...

[JDog]

My preference is to be above the formation, just zig zagging about.   That is with multiple escorts  though, if you were the only escort, then slightly above, behind, and within 2k at all times for sure.

When I am the only escort, it's not so much getting a kill as it is just keeping the con off the formation and staying close, cause usually a second con will show up.

As Drone pointed out, this to me is a NO NO!
" I cannot tell you how often, as a bomber pilot, I've seen 10 escorts dive after a single 109 or 190, leaving the bombers to be shredded by a few other fighters moments later.  I've also flown through bomber formations specifically to pull the escorts after me.  It's a tough job"

We get a good turnout one of these Sundays,  we'll have an escort only night maybe 


 

JDog

[Malap]

What you DON"T do is have a very large force of escorts trail way behind the bomber formation where the defenders can take out most of the bombers in the first head on pass. Fortunately for us thats what they did last FSO 

[daddog]

Not much to add because others have pretty much covered it. I did have fun that night too.

If I am in bombers and have one or two of you flying escort I would prefer you my high 6. Lets face it you can't stop someone from getting at least once pass on the buffs. I suppose if you were high 12 and sweeping you might get on the tail of a fighter before they get a pass, but that will be rare. More than likely they will get one pass and IMHO the best place to be is my high 6 so you have a good view as you stated in your post and will have the e to saddle up on them. Assuming of course you are co-alt or above them. I also think someone should be at least 4k above the bombers. Again this is just when we are talking about one or two bomber formations and one or two escorts. Multiple bombers and escorts is a very different story. Not everyone will agree. Of course if you have decided to 'escort' ask the bomber pilot where he wants you. Can't go wrong with that.