Half Cuban 8

[Cajun]

Question for you mongrel trainers...  Sometimes at a merge and frequently I use the Half Cuban 8 as a tactic and have found it extremely successful.  But looking at the AH training website and others, it is rarely discussed.

Another squad I was in had a similar discussion about the lag roll and we spent a lot of time practicing it, until it became effective.

In your opinion is the Half Cuban 8 and effective maneuver or is there a better one that I should be taking advantage of?  A lot of times that I use it I think it comes out as being effective because it is not expected and I find myself either on their six or coming straight down on them while they try to turn and avoid me dropping on them.

Thank you sirs for your time.

[Ghosth]

Can you define exactly what half of a cuban 8 is?

Generally speaking, on first merge all other things being equal, the pilot that goes up into an Immanuel to reverse, is going to have better position, and more energy, than any other maneuver possible. Because gravity is helping pull you over the top, and because your trading your speed for altitude, then turning tightest at your slowest speed. You lose less energy, and gain the advantage of being above your enemy. You have more options.

You can get your nose ahead of him, and try for a crossing shot.
You can Roll into his plane of flight, do a short turn and be behind him.
You can roll to the opposite direction and extend out, and away cleanly.

Catch me in the TA someday Cajun, we'll grab a pair of vals and explore this a bit.

[Cajun]

Cuban Eight 5/8s of a loop to the 45 degree line, 1/2 roll, 5/8s of a loop to the 45 degree line, 1/2 roll, 3/8s of a loop to level flight. (Half of the Cuban Eight is called a "half Cuban Eight", and the figure can be flown backwards, known as a "Reverse Cuban Eight") 
Half Cuban Eight From level flight, 5/8s loop to the inverted 45° line, 1/2 roll to erect down 45° line, pull to level flight. 
Reverse Half Cuban Eight From level flight pull to the 45° up line, 1/2 roll to inverted 45° up line, then 5/8s of a loop to level flight. 


http://www.fightercombat.com/images/half_cuban_animated.gif

[daddog]

These might be of help to you Cajun.
http://332nd.org/aces-high/acm
Just some general ACM clips.

[Baumer]

A 1/2 Cuban and an Immelmann are nearly the same maneuver.

In an Immelmann you roll back upright at the top of the loop, in a Cuban 8 you roll back upright once you've gone over the top of the loop and your nose is pointed 45 degrees down at the ground.

We do it all the time, we just don't call it a Cuban 8 (well 1/2 anyways).

[Cajun]

Got it, thanks.

[JDog]

Can you define exactly what half of a Cuban 8 is?

Generally speaking, on first merge all other things being equal, the pilot that goes up into an Immanuel to reverse, is going to have better position, and more energy, than any other maneuver possible.

Immanuel??  Silly fingers didn't type what your brain told them too   

Sorry Ghosth, it was just too good to let go unnoticed 

JDog

[Cajun]

I thought the spelling was due to the holiday season.   

[Ghosth]

more like a case of early morning lackofcoffee, thankfully it wears off after a a big mug or 2.

[daddog]

That would be normal for me.

[Morfiend]

  I do cuban 8's all the time in the TA,I use a RW as a reference to try to stay lined up.
It's great practice for "E" management,watching speed and alt and trying to gain in both.

 Baums right that the 1/2 cuban is just a modified immelmen and therefore is somewhat useful as ACM,but, I'd say it's an offensive move as opposed to defencive,the lag roll is more defensive.That said the lag roll can be offensive aswell and I cant see the 1/2 8 being used as defence.

[Cajun]

I agree.  I use this purely as offensive.  If used while on defense you would basically leave yourself hanging for an easy shot, almost as if someone was dragging you up for his wingman.

The lag roll, I still need practice on that. 

[Morfiend]

spot on Cajun.

 The 1/2 8 should be practiced with a reference to stay lined up,every plane is abit different as too how much it veres{sp} offline.By controling this and watching speed/alt you'll quickly learn what bleed your "E".Soon though you'll learn to gain it bit by bit a couple mph faster,a few 100 ft higher.

 These lessons will help you drain as much "E" as possible from your plane and gain an edge on the other guy.As a side benefit it's also good practice for ground attacks,GV's,AAguns,ect.you'll stay lined up and have a longer time "on target".