Concealed Carry

[ASAdog]

Just curious if any other Dogs carry concealed (lawfully that is).

Oregon (my home state) is a "shall issue" state. That is, as long as you pass the background check, have the minimum required training with handguns, and meet the other application requirements, then the county sheriff shall issue the concealed handgun license (CHL) - there is no other choice for the sheriff.

Here is one of my CHL guns:



Peace,

[Hamerd]

I had my license in Kentucky, sounds like the same requirements, I never did renew it, didn't see the need, not now anyway, I'm not sure if Nevada has a carry permit or not.
                                                                                             Hamerd

[ASAdog]

Last year Nevada became another "shall issue" state.

At Your service,

[daddog]

No, but when I was living in Fresno I wanted one. Fresno had a very rough side of town and gangs were doing a lot of in home invasions.

[ASAdog]

California is a "may issue" state; that is it is completely up to the descretion of some govenment official (often the County Sheriff) as to wether or not it will be issued.

In most "may issue" states, to get a permit/license to carry concealed, you usually have to be someone special or have a really compelling reason the get the permit/license.

Interesting California event occured when one Sheriff decided to essentially issue permits to any California resident (after background check) that was willing to pay the price. Since a California permit issued in any county is valid through out the state, he was essentially acquiring revenue for his county by "selling" the permits. PO'd a lot of government officials in other jurisdictions. 

Peace,

[HeavyH]

I have one, although I haven't had the need to carry.  I like the option though, and I wouldn't hesitate to carry if I thought I needed to.  It's nice to present it at the gun counter and walk out with a handgun without the wait.  It's a measly 50.00 every 4 years. 

I also recall one incident some years ago.  I had taken a small bull elk and went back to camp for the cart and manpower.  Since I was done hunting, I left my rifle at camp, but strapped on my Ruger Redhawk 44 mag.  It was raining, so I put the shoulder holster under my coat to semi protect it.  An Oregon State Trooper F&G guy caught up with us half way back with the elk and checked my license and tag.  He could see the 44 mag bulging out from my coat and asked me if I was a CC permit holder.  I hadn't thought about it at all, I was just trying to protect the pistol.  Although I was legal, had I not been he would have written me a ticket. 

I would like to buy a concealable handgun in 9mm or 40, but I just haven't found the right one.  Being left handed, there is always something about the handgun that I don't like or that doesn't work well for a lefty. 

ASA, one question.  When you are carrying, do you also have some sort of strongbox in your vehicle to put the handgun in if say you need to go into a bank or other place where you can't carry? 

[ASAdog]

First note: Standard disclaimor - I am not a lawyer. I cannot give legal advice. If you seek a legal opinion you should seek the services of an attorney. I give only opinion; opinion based on my training and experience in law enforcement, but not legal advice.

ASA, one question.  When you are carrying, do you also have some sort of strongbox in your vehicle to put the handgun in if say you need to go into a bank or other place where you can't carry?

Short answer is "No". I keep it really "concealed", so no issues should come up if I enter a private business that has posted "No Guns". The worst they can do if I am somehow discovered to be carrying is ask me to leave - which I will do. There is no ORS that makes carrying a concealed firearm (with a valid CHL) on private property illegal. Criminal trespass law would only come into play if one refused to leave by order of a person lawfully within their authority to do so or if one returned after being lawfully told to leave.

In places where it is "illegal" for me to carry I place it in the center console and only plan on being in there a very short time.

Fortunately, in Oregon, public buildings (with few exceptions) can't deny access to persons carrying concealed if they have their valid Oregon CHL on them.

He could see the 44 mag bulging out from my coat and asked me if I was a CC permit holder.

Two things:

1. In Oregon no license is required for concealed carry if one may legally posses a firearm and one is hunting, fishing, target shooting, or going directly to or from these activities.

2.  A few years back ODF had to change their regulations on carrying a handgun while hunting after it was pointed out to them that they lacked authority to regulate such.

In pursuit,

[HeavyH]

The hunting "incident" happened in 1989.  He is the one who said he would have issued me a ticket had I not had the CC permit.  Back then you had to go to a class, I did mine at Larry's in O.C.  Remember good ol' Larry's?  I miss that place, even though Fisherman's is similar. 

[ASAdog]

Yes, in 1989 he would have written one and it would have been valid (at least uner the understanding of the law at that time). I just wanted you to know that this has changed.

Larry's! I loved Larry's! I spent many an hour in there.

BTW, you know I live in Milwaukie - don't you.

[forHIM]

Not to hijack, but In MN it's illegal to even have the gun on school property, so how does permit holder deal with that?  I have thought about getting the permit, so I can be legal if I ever did want to and to ensure that the will issue law stays as is.

[HeavyH]

ASA, yeah, I remembered that you live in Mayberry.  I was MHS class of 78.  I get down there once in a while, especially when the springers are in.

Its BIG TIME illegal to carry any weapon onto school property here in Wa.  Into banks too I believe.  I was going to actually read the regulations on it, but its a thick publication and loaded with lots of lawyer babble.  I just figure I'll use simple common sense if I ever need to pack heat.  That's why I have always thought of installing one of those bedside strongboxes in my pickup for those occasions when I shoudn't carry the gun into wherever it is I'm going.

[LuckyI3]

I have  concealed  weapon permit  have to get them renewed every 5 years  and so does my wife

[Earthdog]

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just curious as to why people feel a need to carry a gun.  I've lived in some pretty bad places like East Oakland and never thought about having one. Although it's quite possible that now that I have a family if I still lived in those places I'd feel quite different.  I haven't had a gun since I was a teenager, but it's interesting that in the general climate of fear in the days following 9/11 I half joked to my wife about buying a hand gun.  I expected a pretty negative response since my wife, who grew up in San Francisco, is not really a gun person (to put it mildly).  Her only response was to look at me and say "as long as you get training."  I guess, my point is, I'm just curious about what circumstances makes one want to own or carry a hand gun (except for target practice which I've greatly enjoyed in the past).  For instance, I live in downtown San Jose, which is a very safe city, and I don't usually feel I need a gun.  I think if I lived someplace rural, where immediate help for me or my family was not a cell phone call away I'd be much more inclined to want one with me as often as possible.

P.S.  I hope I didn't hijack this thread.

[Ghosth]

Actually rural is generally pretty safe. People may LOOK unsavory, but they are mostly just plain folks.
Ussually they are they because they were born there and never got out.
Or they are there because they like the peace and quiet.
No one goes to the country to prey on city folk who happen to get lost on a sunday drive. 

A lot of people used to have to carry large sums of money. That has pretty much gone the way
of the dinosaur. And was probably the biggest single reason for carrying. Myself, I'm not sure if I'd
shoot someone just to save my money. My life, or my wife yes, but not money, or a car.
Not that anyone would ever try to steal what we drive.

To me if someone wants to carry a gun, they should belt it on in plain view.
And yes they should be able to go anywhere but a bank or a school with it on.
A gun in plain sight is a warning or caution to a lot of people for a number of reasons.
A gun hidden never stopped anyone from doing anything until it was no longer hidden.

But then I fell off the turnip truck here in town a while back, what do I know. 

[Earthdog]

I agree Ghosth.  I believe rural is probably a lot safer than any city, no matter how well it's policed.  I just meant that if you do run into someone out to do harm, regardless of where you live, your more likely to need to rely on yourself for protection if you live someplace isolated. 

[HeavyH]

I personally don't carry every day, but I like having the option.  It is my right, so I prepare myself for that possibility.  

[ASAdog]

forHim:

… but In MN it's illegal to even have the gun on school property, so how does permit holder deal with that?

I don’t know MN law, but if its illegal then its illegal and I don’t recommend breaking the law. Now, if there is an exception to that law for licensed concealed carriers, and you want that option, then get the license.

Earthdog:

…I'm just curious as to why people feel a need to carry a gun.

I can only answer for myself, for there isn’t just one answer.

My belief is that there are three basic rights – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Each of these basic rights has auxiliary rights.

The right to life carries with it the right to defend life, and therefore the right to the tools to defend life. A handgun is the most portable and convenient tool for that purpose.

Liberty (freedom from oppression, freedom of speech, of movement, of association, of the free exercise of religion, etc…) also is worthy of preparedness against those that would deny or withhold liberty. It also carries the right of defense and the tools of defense.

Pursuit of happiness, likewise, carries the right to defend this right from those that would attempt to deprive us of the fruits of that pursuit, and to the tools for that defense.

I believe being freely armed is the essence of a truly free society. It shows that we citizens, when all is said and done, have the first right and responsibility over our safety, security, and protection of our rights.

Leaving the tool (handgun) behind at home in a gun safe is for me like saying “Safety, security, and protection of rights aren’t important enough for me to bother carrying the tool I may need (with little or no notice) in defense against those that would interfere or deny such to you or me”.

I don’t live in a particularly dangerous area, but even in peaceful areas it has occasionally been necessary for a free person to defend their self or others.

I also liken the carried handgun to any personal emergency equipment. It may not be “needed” often if at all, but when it is “needed” it is needed NOW!

In Pursuit,

[ASAdog]

… your more likely to need to rely on yourself for protection if you live someplace isolated.

When the police are only minutes away, you may only have seconds to solve the problem.

Regardless of where you live, some crises can’t wait for the police or cavalry to arrive; and if the need for self defense has not reached the crisis level, is there really a need for the use of deadly force? The use of deadly force in defense of self or others requires that there be an immanent deadly threat. Immanent means NOW, not five minutes from now.

At your service, 

Edit: I got to thinking about this and decided to add:

Cho (of Virginia Tech infamy) in nine minutes killed 30 people and wounded 17 others. The Police were only a couple of minutes away during the shootings.

[MP Sarge]

  I live about 15 miles from Philadelphia/Camden are both within driving distance. and had our share of arrests in where they came from both cities,  and 5 miles from Trenton (across the river from me the river divides our town) the bridge that crosses river goes to my town main st, i live away from main st..which Well isn't the best place in the world.
  I have 1 store about 7 football fields away which i like to walk to for want not stuff.         
That store is about 5 miles in any direction of another and has been held up 4 times since i live here, So the bad are close and when I read the police logs much of the crime here are from the major cities. Drugs and armed robbery, and Strong armed robbery, And about 50/50 on B&E's local/city.
 
I have carried a gun since i was 17, Army. Civ Police, and Constable serving warrants, PI for body guard, Now i carry for me. when i walk around to the store and take my early morning walks in the dark before work around 430 am . It is better being safe then sorry. Besides as a civilian i had my gun out 1 time and that time i didn't need it, but I also didn't know what the guy was up to breaking into a box trailer, he gave up soon as he saw me with gun. and that was it for civilian danger, well except the Fire Dept and the guys i brought to prison, they were never to happy about that. 

 you never know when you run across those guys. And since we all live in the area i come across them alot. some say hi..lol some Don't talk to me at all. So there is a few reason why i still do when I leave the house. And always have one near in house, (Sleeping Area) for the in just in case thing.

And for company that comes uninvited...


kidding

[Earthdog]

Thanks for the well spoken responses guys.  It really helps me understand where your coming from.  I hope no one took my curiosity wrong.  The issue of guns and gun control, which I think was kind of touched on in ASAdog's response, just isn't something I've thought much about.  It sounds like Sarge carries one for some pretty clear personal safety reasons, and ASAdog for some of that but mostly for a well founded sense of Constitutional rights.  I suppose that in my current situation I don't feel the likelihood of an imminent threat to me or my family outweighs the hassles or accidental dangers of owning or carrying a gun.  Maybe my experience has clouded this.  In my life I've known three people that were killed by guns.  The first two were in highschool, where one kid accidentally shot and killed his brother, and another kid committed suicide.  Both of these were with their dad's handgun.  The other incident was more recent when the pediatrician that delivered my first daughter was shot by her ex-husband.  In the more recent case maybe a gun would have saved her, or maybe she had a gun, I don't know.  Still, your points about the possibility of an imminent threat that requires an immediate response are well taken.  I am haunted by the story of the mother and daughter and her daughter's friend that were hiking in Yosemite a few years ago.  They were taken captive and tortured by another hiker they came across and were eventually killed.  I can't imagine the horror I would feel if I got into a similar situation with my family and didn't have the means to protect them.

[ASAdog]

I hope no one took my curiosity wrong.

Absolutely not; I welcomed your question.

Only correction I have is that I see these basic rights as existing whether they are in the US Constitution (USC) or not.

In my mind carrying a handgun is both for protection (of self and others) from assault, and as an exercise of a right that extends beyond what is merely mentioned in the USC - It is an affirmation of a free citizen’s acknowledgement of their rights and their basic responsibility over personal and collective  safety, security, and protection of rights.

As Always,

[LuckyI3]

Like they say better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it