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Author Topic: A better explanation of the Immelman advantage  (Read 181 times)
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Simaril
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« on: April 08, 2007, 07:00:50 AM »

I've been emailing snips of films to Murdr and asking to comment on individual merges, or moves I made. It has been VERY helpful....especially since it breaks big problems ("I always lose unless I have a big advantage at start") into individual decisions inside the fight. I highly recommend it!

Anyway, Murdr just sent an email titled "See What You Made Me Do?" -- and linked me to a project he'd finally gotten motivated to finish up. He specifically addresses the advantage of the Immelman over the flat turn -- which was the subject of a training film I was planning. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I'm pasting Murdr's excellent, concise explanation -- which includes keywords that link to definitions or films that explain those individual words.

It's a wonderful learning document -- and I highly recommend it! http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/acm/acm.html


He's done something fancy with popup links inside the document, and I can't paste that here. So here's the text alone -- but for the full value, go to his page!!

Immelman vs Flat Turn

An Immelman spends a majority of its turn thrusting directly against gravity. That means we are slowing down at a quicker rate than with many other maneuvers. This can be useful for reaching a desired cornering speed quickly. We also are exchanging energy states. We are trading speed for altitude. From this higher position, we could thrust with gravity (dive) and gain much of our speed back if needed. With a Flat Turn, all of our speed loss is due to drag. We are not slowing down as quickly as with an Immelman, and we are not exchanging engergy states. The only way we can gain speed is by going lower than our starting altitude. Let's look at an illustration of how we can expect them to stack up against each other after a merge.

With the exact same plane type and load out, the plane that did the Immelman clearly beats the flat turning plane. Notice how the turn radius of the Immelman tightens as its speed decreases. Also notice its position on top of the other plane, where it has the force of gravity at its back. In short we can expect:

Immelman beats a Flat Turn Film
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Ghosth
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Skype me search for ghosth332


« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 08:38:32 AM »

Just read this on the Trainers forum. Smiley

The only thing I had issue with is he made a statement about lineing up premerge for your next manuver.
While this is good in terms of thinking in advance, setting up to win, etc. Its also a danger, in that a good opponant will take the clue and set you up.

As such you need to be aware of exactly when you start that move. And the dangers of "telegraphing" a move, same as a fighter telegraphing a punch by dropping his shoulder. As a matter of fact I'll often go into a merge with wings banked left "faking" a left oblique immelman, when I'm actually planning something quite different.
As he loses sight I'll snap into where I'm really headed. If you time this right this can actually work in your favor, as he's looking over there (10:00 high) while I'm over here (2:00 high). At the very least I am not where he THOUGHT I was going to be.  Smiley

Think slippery, plan in advance, but give nothing away that you don't have to. Be prepared to scrap everything at a moments notice if the last plan didn't work. You guys laugh when I say it but I really do mean it.

"Use the force luke!"
Listen to your hunches,good air combat isn't so much a concious thing as it is.
Being open to any thing that pops into your head, almost zen like.
After a while you can almost "feel" whats going to work and what won't.

Ohhh and when you feel like someone has you in their sights. Don't "Look" and see. Roll into a barrel roll first, THEN look after you've spoiled their shot.  Smiley

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Colonel Ghosth
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