TRAINING FILM -- "What Went Wrong #1"

[TicTok]

To quote my Bud, "ThunderCougarFalconBird!", I am as LOST as a little boy in FIRST day of kindergarten. I want to know what HO is. HeadOn? I don't know! I will say though, spend 2 years reading, studying, absorbing knowledge, testing, graduating and what have you got? Two more years to learn HOW to apply what you have learned. Let's CUT TO THE CHASE, SHOW me how to properly engage w/do's and don'ts of correct technique. The name of the film is a QUESTION, NOT an answer. I am confused as to if you were trying to show proper or improper moves? Sorry Sim, Snow will tell ya, I'm a HEAD ON kinda guy...LOL. This is giving me a headache that, well feels like being  , you get the point. We can talk about it forever, but applying IT is the GOAL! I want TO SCORE..... SIR...sorry...Sir

[Simaril]

Yeah, seeing how the questions have gone I can see that my first idea -- kinda like a case study with questions and discussion -- doesnt work well.

Now what I want to do is catch some stuff on film and isolate ONE move alone. Then, walk through the move and talk about the where and whens.

More to come.,....

[outlaw]

a couple of things i noticed first merge was a bust when you nosed down to him. the person with the nose down at a merge is the looser of that merge.

 now with the vid not showing what variant of the hawg you was flying I'll assume it was not the -4. the extension was a dangerous move as the hawg's main ability over the 38 is it's instant turn abilities and lo speed handling.a normal immel <Sp> instead of turning into and nosing down would of been the best move but if you really wanted to get some space between the two of you a lo G spiral climb would of been a more advantage move without giving up the ability to extend if the pilot actually happen to be one of the better 38 pilots in the arenas.

the tactic on the second merge was a gamble at best and one that paid off for you this time.

 i didn't see allot of flap usage till the end now this might just be the film not showing all the usage but on all American birds first notch of flaps should be used when below maximum deployment speed when turning. the hawgs turning ability is greatly enhanced when they are used even when you think you can pull max G's without them. American birds get less drag out of one or two notches of flaps then out of the elevator when used to pull max G with out them.

 the vertical move is a mistake most rookies make in the wrong situation but when used in the right sit is very deadly in hands of the better 38 pilots as the 38 is by far the better climber of the 2 birds.

 in the end your choice of tactics worked for the situation but i noticed a second nme con on the tracker if he would of been coming into the area to where he could of actually been a threat to you the fight would of went quickly out of your favorer by the mere fact of the caution you was taking with your choice of tactics.

 the biggest mistake the 38 pilot made when he found himself in trouble was to dive for such an extended period of time the hawg is one of the best divers in the game and very few of the birds in AH will get away from one when in a dive. when he dove he should of only sacrificed enough alt to regain vertical maneuvering speed and started vertical tactics to gain angles while working your E off. American birds are great turners while they have E but their E falls off quickly in the vertical the 38 would of maintained E longer then the hawg thus if he could of stayed out of your gun solution long enough to burn your E to a dangerously lo area (I.E. below sustained turned speed.) while maintaining his sustained turn speed he could of worked the tables around where as diving and giving up on the fight and trying to run he basically said kill me.

in the end it boils down to this he didn't use enough Patience's where as you did but this fight could of been over allot quicker with some more aggression on your part.

if you was in the -4 then the only thing i can say is AGRESSION as the -4 out classes almost everything in the arena.

[outlaw]

Simaril,

 I tried to watch the stick movements during the film but it doesn't appear to move.

The term Lead Turn is throwing me for a loop, . I have a relay hard time judging direction, and speed, as well as altitude. My only combat strategy is "Try and Stay Alive."

  Before the second merge did you assume he would Ilmmel? I am still unsure why you avoided the first merge Could you not have dove under him and lead turn just as easy as you did for the second merge? what was the difference? it looks like you were aiming for his tail. Hoping to turn and loop up over him. I must admit most of this is way above my understanding

I really appreciate this Sim.

Tsnow <S>

when watching a film for instructural <Sp?> purposes use external views with recorded views and trails checked this will help you see movements better while seeing where the pilot is looking while he moves.

the differnce in the merges where great from the e stat of both the birds to position of each aircraft. a lead turn with the 38 being lower would of exposed Sim's tail to his opponet. a lag immel<Sp?> would of keep Sim's alt advantage and with his added speed would of even had gained some on his opponet without giving the 38 a good shot.in the end Sim likes to give opponets to much chance  

remeber if your in a fair fight you planed it wrong. get the advantage keep it and work it. to many people work for a merge they like and give thier opponet a chance in the end this makes for a decent fight but does nothing to improve ones abilities. take the fight you get and learn to work it to your best position the good fights will come in time.

[Simaril]

a couple of things i noticed first merge was a bust when you nosed down to him. the person with the nose down at a merge is the looser of that merge.

 now with the vid not showing what variant of the hawg you was flying I'll assume it was not the -4. the extension was a dangerous move as the hawg's main ability over the 38 is it's instant turn abilities and lo speed handling.a normal immel <Sp> instead of turning into and nosing down would of been the best move but if you really wanted to get some space between the two of you a lo G spiral climb would of been a more advantage move without giving up the ability to extend if the pilot actually happen to be one of the better 38 pilots in the arenas.

the tactic on the second merge was a gamble at best and one that paid off for you this time.

 i didn't see allot of flap usage till the end now this might just be the film not showing all the usage but on all American birds first notch of flaps should be used when below maximum deployment speed when turning. the hawgs turning ability is greatly enhanced when they are used even when you think you can pull max G's without them. American birds get less drag out of one or two notches of flaps then out of the elevator when used to pull max G with out them.

 the vertical move is a mistake most rookies make in the wrong situation but when used in the right sit is very deadly in hands of the better 38 pilots as the 38 is by far the better climber of the 2 birds.

 in the end your choice of tactics worked for the situation but i noticed a second nme con on the tracker if he would of been coming into the area to where he could of actually been a threat to you the fight would of went quickly out of your favorer by the mere fact of the caution you was taking with your choice of tactics.

 the biggest mistake the 38 pilot made when he found himself in trouble was to dive for such an extended period of time the hawg is one of the best divers in the game and very few of the birds in AH will get away from one when in a dive. when he dove he should of only sacrificed enough alt to regain vertical maneuvering speed and started vertical tactics to gain angles while working your E off. American birds are great turners while they have E but their E falls off quickly in the vertical the 38 would of maintained E longer then the hawg thus if he could of stayed out of your gun solution long enough to burn your E to a dangerously lo area (I.E. below sustained turned speed.) while maintaining his sustained turn speed he could of worked the tables around where as diving and giving up on the fight and trying to run he basically said kill me.

in the end it boils down to this he didn't use enough Patience's where as you did but this fight could of been over allot quicker with some more aggression on your part.

if you was in the -4 then the only thing i can say is AGRESSION as the -4 out classes almost everything in the arena.

thanks for the comments, Outlaw.

I was in the -1A.

I tend to get into trouble with spiral climbs, and I'm not sure why. I think what happens is that the enemy makes a smaller spiral than I dio and those smaller circles mean that he both conserves energy and has an inside angle that can give him a shot.

I didnt use much flap work -- I tend to use those mostly at low speed, to maintain lift, because I'm afraid of bleeding E. Am I being too conservative with that?

[outlaw]

conserving E is good if your in a hot zone but if it one on one angle and getting it over quickly is more important. plus u will loose less E with one notch of flaps and turn quicker then without remember that lift will help you turn where the elevator is a bigger air drag then the flaps because it is pushing against the lift of your bird instead of with it. more then one notch of flaps works the same way it's a balancing act drag versus air flow.


edit:  did some thinking and wanted to clarify a little.. when i say a lo g spiral climb i don't mean a prolong spiral climb as this match up a prolong spiral climb would land you in trouble. the superior climb rate of the 38 would mean eventually he would be able to do exactly what you say you have trouble with. a spiral climb in this situation would be best limited to 180 degree reversal to give you separation and enough time to see his responce to your move. now this does not mean stay in it the whole 180 but just long enough to c his responce and do your next move it means it should not be kept up past the 180 degree reversal. now if you was in the bird with the superior climb rate a longer spiral climb to bleed his E might be in order but not in this match up. remember if your E state or your bird just plain and simple will out climb your opponent dragging up can be as beneficial as flat turning him out of E. in this case it would of been beneficial in just giving you time to judge his opening move while trading speed for alt in a more effenciant way in the same way a high yo-yo works but without the commitment to coming right back down.

[Murdr]

00:00 see next

00:48 Shallow dive angle into the merge.  If you're going to attempt vertical separation for a merge lead turn, start early.  Force the other guy to chase you down to the merge, and you only amplify their nose down angle disadvantage at the merge.  If they refuse to chase you down to the merge, it only amplifies the advantage of your lead turn.  Goal is for you to be nose up, or at minium nose level at the merge with them passing through your lift vector.  To accomplish this, its never too early to start the race under the merge.

01:00 Separation managment.  If the opponent does something other than an immelman after the merge it's time to evaluate adjusting your turn.  If its a fairly pure flat turn, no adjustment is needed.  If its a pure split-s, it's time to forget the immelman and manage your separation so it does not become large enough to allow them to meet you head on or worse.  If its a nose low flat turn (greater than abou 40 degrees), it's probably a good idea to convert your immelman into a pitchback or high yo-yo.  As the P-38 with 1.5k separation, I could have easily forced a head to head merge or better.

01:17 3-9 line overshoot-lack of agression.  This was the time to do the 2nd half of a barrel and end the fight quick.  It's hard to tell at this point in the film if the 38 wants to crossover again or try to extend.  Either way it doesnt matter, if they don't attempt to crossover, the fight is over after you've rolled in behind them.  If they do, you are in trail at a good enough angle to have them on the defensive, and still likely to end it quickly.

[Simaril]

Whoa. "... I am not worthy..."   



Thanks Mudr, very helpful analysis. Gonna have to spend some time processing that...

<S>

[Ghosth]

Good to see you show up here Murdr 

Trainers are always welcome here.

[Murdr]

Yea, I found my way here the other week, after checking the referer logs on the squad site (eg. someone clicked links from these forums and ended up at the 479th site).

Not long after my last post, I read Mace's rough draft on the overshoot write-up that was added to the trainers site today.   When I read it, I rethought my "overshoot-lack of agression" comment.  As Mace pointed out, "you have to recognize one when it happens" so I guess I should modify that comment.  overshoot lack of agression-missed opportunity 

Oh, and here is the trainer's site announcment from this morning....

New pages at the Trainers' Web Site:

Forcing an Overshoot by Mace. This is an expanded version of his reply to the question on how to force an overshoot posted on this board a couple of weeks ago.

Basic ACM and Merge Tactics by Murdr. A good look at how BFMs apply to ACM in the merge.

Situation Awareness by Hammer. The page that has been on netAces for some time now.

[daddog]

Thank you sir.

[mrmidi]

1. Go fast

2. Turn Left

3. Don't crash

Oh sorry wrong type of training...

Mid