Everyone please vote.

[daddog]

When I contact HTC (hitech and pyro) I will use this as an indicator.

Please vote (even if you like most of the changes). The more the more of you that vote the more weight this will hold with them.

[Simaril]

With all respect, Daddog, I think its way early for this. We have no idea how the most recent changes will affect balance, and gameplay overall. We havent even tried to get the squad together once yet since the caps have gone in.

What's more, HT has publicly stated that he's doing some (long overdue) reworking of the entire strat system, and the "win the war" system. We have no idea what that will look like, much less what it will do in the community.

HT has a real problem with ANYTHING he does....the community as a whole is creative, diabolically clever, totally unpredictable, and made up of guys with WIDELY varying personalities and game values. There are thousands of us, from all over the world. We function like a huge biologic computer...bent on twisting, turning, and tweaking to find the "best" way to expploit the game to achieve our goals. Once someone figures out a great idea, we all see it and do it too.

So the trouble is, he has no way to predict what will happen when he does ANYTHING. He can guess, but the actual result can be enormously surprising at times. He has to make his best guess, then wait to see what pops out the end of the processor.

I really dont think its time to form an opinion at all. Who knows what guys will come up with? Who knows what squads will suddenly reach the poin that they decide its better to be country flexible? I mean, this week even FALCNWNG said it doesnt bother him think about changing countries! I NEVER would have predicted that!

So...I would hesitate to form an opinion, and I would REALLY hesitate to put our credibility on the line by passing poll results to HT.

Just my 2 pence.

[skernsk]

Well Sim, you have some valid points but here isare some for you.

There are several arenas.  Early, Mid, Late.  I loved that change and still support the idea.  However when we get together in Early or Mid war we (as a squad of 20+) pork the ENY for the entire arena.  When I go to click on a plane I get a message that tells me I cannot fly it.  That is where I call BULLSH!T. 

I pay to play and I should get to fly the plane I choose.  Not be stuck in a Val because HTC's stupid ENY system is screwed.  Why have it at all in there.  Make certain planes available, perk some if you like and let us friggen play. 

The new cap system being discussed and developed in the BBS (Latewar Orange) while in play is not planning.  It is the epitomy of a lack of direction.  If HTC has a vision, fine, clue us all in.  But quite frankly one change affects another ... causing the need for yet another to the point of stupidity.

I voted 'No' because the ENY is a joke and the past several squad nights I cannot fly the plane I want to.  How can we set up a mission if we can't choose a damn plane. 

See you Friday night, I will be doing other things with my time until then......


BTW, while HTC makes all of these 'changes' perhaps his time would better be served making changes to the game... such as develop a better ground war, or add a new plane or two.  Those are examples of positive change.

<rant over>

[Simaril]

Well, skernsk, if your main gripe is the ENY plane restriction, then you're behind the times -- and I have some good news for you.

ENY plane restricions are gone with the new system. If you are already in the arena, and the ENY kicks in, you can still fly anything. But, if you disco, you probably wont get back in right away. (most guys who posted told of waits in the 3-5 minute range, till xomeone else leaves the high country.)

This move shows that HT is admitting what we pretty much knew right away -- the old ENY plane restrction didnt make anyone balance sides at all.

[skernsk]

Great news. 

Multiple areans - good
No eny -  also good.

Now, when we as a squad go online this Friday night.  We should alll be able to login and fly for the same side, fly whatever we want and not worry about balance issues.

As for what side we are on, who cares.  That being said, why not just have two sides.  Perhaps that will help.

[daddog]

You might be right Simaril, but I want HTC to be aware of the issues that a long time loyal squad has.

Heck I don't even care about changing sides. What I do care about is flying with my squadies and anything no matter how small that would make that more difficult is a negative in my book. I realize that most of the issue revolves around game play and balance, but my main issue is flying with my squadies any time, any place, any where. If the formula to solve game play and balance subtracts from my squadie total then I am not for it.

I am all for game play balance, but not if squads are going to be put on the alter of sacrifice. 

[Teedog]

That being said, why not just have two sides.  Perhaps that will help.

BINGO!!!!! That is the best answer I've seen!!!

[outlaw]

here's the thing with messing with side balance in my 11yrs of playing in MMOG's i have learned that you really can not control side balancing.

you could if you could keep people in the game once they joined a game until a replacement comes but who would play then?

you could if you set timers on the rounds that would even out the numbers every so often. but again who would play AH then?

the on line world is a world in motion that weather we like it or not revolves amongst our real life's it fits into little time slots that we have free not the other way around. if it's the other way around then that person really needs to get some social skills and find a life.

the problems this creates is there are allot of people this is their only social life. we see them all the time logging 2 or 300 hours in a month because they have no where else to go for what ever reason in their life. then you got the rest like allot in this squad that can find time here and there. when i played everquest this line was drawn between what they called the power gamer and the casual gamer.

now you want people to change sides for the benefit of side balancing and say their to loyal to a chess piece when they don't want to do that. when in all honesty what your asking them to do is go out of their social network and mingle in another. now if a person has trouble with social skills in the first place and really in all honesty has trouble in the mingle ability area your asking someone to give up their confort zone and explore new area's. now to most this is not a big problem they can mingle and meet new people to others this is a serious problem oh they won't admit it but if you really new these people in real life you would see a different person. it is easy to be macho behind the safety of the internet it's entirely harder for the person who has to face himself and their lack of confidence in themself's.

now i don't really care weather we fly knights or another country it wouldn't matter to me but the reason i like flying knights is i can 80% of the time look around and just by looking at who is around me know if i have help or if i am on my own. if i am in to deep for those around me or if it going to be a wild ride. weather i got to be on my toes with checking my 6 or if the guys around me will help in that department. i bet if you think about it you all can say the same thing.

the problem with 2 countries is this if one side is populated by a bunch of power gamers and the other is casual gamers then the one side will end up being low manned just because their not going to play as long. with using three sides this in theory spreads this out better. unfortunately in real life it not that simple.

another thing i see allot in AH is that people will think they are out manned when in truth they are just getting to the battle zone at the wrong time. they see red all over the place and hardly any green they look at the numbers see one country or another has more players on then they do and figure all the extra are hitting them. or that the other 2 countries are gangbanging them. in some case's this is true in others it is not. i don't know how many times i have heard that the others teams are not fighting each other and are gangbanging the knights in some case's this proves true but usually when they are racing each other to the victory this should be solved allot by the new vic conditions but in allot of case's i have heard such claims and take a look over the map and see a healthy fight going on at the other end of the map between the 2 countries being accused of gangbanging. i have many times heard these screams from people and look over the map to see that we are not out number by a team but because we have a big horde trying to take a field and a few trying to defend against the other side. it's not that we are getting ganged it's the fact we got to many trying for one thing and not enough out at other area's. this is not something just making team numbers even will change.

balance in a MMOG such as AH is a pipedream one that evening the numbers will help boost but in reality it will still just be another fantasy.

EDIT: one which Hitech and all his years in this world should already know about.

[Simaril]

I hear what you're saying Outlaw -- but just look at this thread, adn we're a bunch of reasonable guys.

There are people out there who have no idea what has actually happened, but that doesnt stop them from having a rigid opinion. Last night in Blue someone was ranting about how he'd never return to Oraange after HT's nightmare cahnges -- but he was complaining about his 4 minute wait to take off for Bish in Blue too. He had no idea that 1) Orange had returned to standard settings, and 2) There was no wait at all for Bish there. Of course, that didnt stop him from telling everyone what he thought...it just made him look silly when the truth came out.

Even here, we saw some strong opinions about things that were either fragments of the system (like "being forced to change countries" when all you need to do is look at another arena), or things that had been already changed (liek the ENY planeset restrictions).

I think people are so unsettled by the many changes in the last 3 months that they're running on emotions almost exclusively.

I'm not arguing with anybody here, I'm not disagreeing with the concerns. IN fact, I think we've identified some real problems...that might end up needing readjustment in the end. If anything, I guess I'm trying to be a voice of reason...and logically, as opposed to emotionally, how can we justify forwarding a poll to HT about changes we either dont understand or haven't tried out yet?


I still think its ill advised, and I worry that an emotional, ill advised reaction could tarnish a responsible and respected reputation.








I hope I'm not coming off as the south end of a north bound donkey.....

[skernsk]

Stop using things like common sense and rational ideas Sim!  You are confusing me.

Our little microcosm is a good example of the AH community.  If you look at this thread, it resembles the many threads in the AH forums with the exception that we are all a tight knit group who 'respects' one another.  Therefore you don't have the people chiming in calling Sim a HTC groupie etc.

You points are valid, I willl be the first to admit that I have not logged in yet this week, and have not even SEEN what is going on.  That still does not keep me from voting I don't like what is going on.  The fact that there are so many changes so often has gotten me to the boiling point. 

I am tired of being a Ginney Pig, let me know when the Beta testing is done and I will gladly try the game once agian. 

Sim we are at opposite ends of the argument, I hear what you are saying and in fact you are correct, but that still doesn't change the way I 'feel' about the last couple months of Beta testing. 

Keep me informed, I'll see it for myself Friday. 

<S>

[Simaril]

....snip....

 The fact that there are so many changes so often has gotten me to the boiling point. 

I am tired of being a Ginney Pig,.

......snip.......
<S>

That makes perfect sense to me too.  Feeling like that, I'd probably be mad and stay away too.

<S> Back at ya

[forHIM]

Put me in the camp with Skernsk -- I look at the changes as a hodge podge approach to a real problem.  It doesn't feel like there is a grand plan.  I agree with Skernsk -- let me know when the changes are mostly done and then I may start flying again.  Right now I have no desire to fly.  This is a combination of RL stuff and the changes.

[d0gma]

Put me in the camp with Skernsk -- I look at the changes as a hodge podge approach to a real problem.  It doesn't feel like there is a grand plan.  I agree with Skernsk -- let me know when the changes are mostly done and then I may start flying again.  Right now I have no desire to fly.  This is a combination of RL stuff and the changes.

Actually I think that the hodge-podge perception that a lot of people have is what us geeks call 'scope-creep' and unintended consequences.  The first occurs when you start to do one thing and then find all these other things that need doing because they are somehow related to the original intent but weren't actually part of the original scope but in order to complete the initial scope you might as well get these done and... all of the sudden you either forgot what you were working towards in the first place or you have a massive project on your hands that you didn't really plan for.

Combine this with unintended consequences, i.e. smaller arenas expose player imbalances that were previously not a major problem, and you've got one heck of a mess on your hands... Personally I think that the player imbalance issue could have been predicted if they had thought about it hard enough... anyway, if you're unwilling to back out and revert, or step back and have a long hard look at the big picture, you end up where HTC is; scrambling, scrambling to plug holes in the dikes.  I don't envy them at all.  And of course all this drama-rama is (I'm sure) taking their attention away from developing CT or TOD or whatever it's called these days.

[daddog]

Boy you have that right dogma.

I'm not arguing with anybody here, I'm not disagreeing with the concerns. IN fact, I think we've identified some real problems...that might end up needing readjustment in the end. If anything, I guess I'm trying to be a voice of reason...and logically, as opposed to emotionally, how can we justify forwarding a poll to HT about changes we either dont understand or haven't tried out yet?


I still think its ill advised, and I worry that an emotional, ill advised reaction could tarnish a responsible and respected reputation.

I hear you Simaril. I will not forward any poll results or any posting opinions till some more dust has settled. Again I just want to make it clear to them that any changes that would keep me from flying with my squadies or them (my squadies) with me would be a big negative in my book. That, I think, we can all agree on. If they consider changes that would do that, or are considering changes that would do that, then I want them to know we feel strongly opposed to those kind of changes even if for obvious reasons.

[daddog]

In fact I will even share it with you all before I send it.

[Dichodog]

What's a Ginney Pig? Is that some kind of Canadien thing?  How do they taste when slowly smoked?

*ducks the moosehead bottle

 

I totally agree with DDog though if it adversly affects us being able to get together for a squad night it's a bad thing but I really haven't come up with any brilliant ideas to help so I'll just taunt the Canuck

See now this thread is more like one on AH... we have name calling and mocking as well <S>

[mrmidi]

I COAD