Another ding to squads.

[daddog]

Monday we will be implementing a new balancing system. It works with the existing ENY number. It will no longer limit what planes you can fly. But rather when it reaches a preset value, people entering the arena will not be able to fly in that arena for their current country.

You will get a message similar to you are 3rd in a queue of 3 .

Your choices will be
1. go to another arena.
2. change countries.
3. wait until more people come onto the other side, or some one from your country leaves.

People waiting will always be able to change countries regardless of their last country change time.
People waiting in queue will not be counted in the ENY values.
This new balancing system will be implemented in all main arenas.

The test capture lines will be taken down until we can layout and code some different options.

1. The current zone / strat setup does not lend it self very well to the current setup,We will be change the supply system to work on all your countries fields, hence hitting the strat targets will have a larger effect.

2. The war win criteria will be changed from having to capture almost all of 1 country , to having to capture around 30 - 40% of both countries fields.

3. Will also make some core fields uncapturable in each country.

HiTech

I like the separate arena insofar as I can fly a P-38G and not worry about some late war aircraft coming after me, but I have never liked what it has done to our squad. I log on two or three times a week and I see everyone flying in different arena's. It really softened the glue to our squad. Now with this new implementation we might have to switch sides and or arena's to fly together. Does not sound like a big deal but it is IMHO.

I don't like the direction this is going. Other thoughts? Ideas for HTC so they can do something else.

 

[outlaw]

sorry DD but HT imo hasn't been listening at all. the whole player cap on arenas forcing others to do what he wants is getting old now with the new field capture thing all but set in stone it may be more then i am willing to put up with.

the way it is now when we got into a arena in force we are more then likely going to have to put up with a eny limiter thus from just reading the passage you quoted it will more then likly put us searching for a arena that isn't making us sit for good periods of time for all to fly. then agasin it might really help balancing i might be wrong but i'm not so sure HT cares about the squad asspect of the game as he is in doing stuff to make CT look good to squads when it finnally arrives.

HT can say he is doing it because people don't like change but IMO people have given the new capture system a fair shake and have said overwhelmingly NO but it has not stop HT from continuing on that path.

i myself have no problem with the multi arena setup. but the number caps and the splitting of the LW's have driven to many wedge's into the game and taken away from the game in such a way i'm not even sure it can be made fun again without HT wakening up and seeing that he is hurting his game more then helping.

[skernsk]

It would seem to me that scrapping the ENY completely would solve the issue.  I have never understood the need for it in the first place.

I am not going to be hasty, but if the next couple squad nights have us in different arenas or different sides I may have to bail on Aces High.  I have never cared about land grabbing ... or furballing.  I like them both equally well as long as I can do it with a good group of friends.  Seems to me Hitech is spending more time on this BS and less on development.

DD, could you give us ANY info on the testing you are doing?  I don't want details or screenshots.  Just give me a best guess as to WHEN.

[Schatzi]

OK, maybe here i can get an answer to my confusion on the whole squad thing. Without opening myself to all the wines and gripes of the AH BBS.


I dont really understand where the problem for the squads lies. This whole "we cant fly together anymore" has me just puzzled: If one country is marked as "full" for the arena, you can always take the WHOLE SQUAD over to the lower number side and set your coop up there.

From what i can see, HT is desperatly trying to find a solution to the numbers problem. And dont tell me there ISNT a problem..... 80 rooks, 25 Knights and 30 Bish IS a problem. But all the rooks did was get on 200 and cry about their ENY limit of 22.... doh! Lately, the arenas (even before the split the old MA) was just a "run for reset". In the last month, every single time i logged into the MAs, there was one country down to under 10 bases, steamrolled by high numbers.


I understand that my style of playing (squadless fighter jock) has very little impact points with any of the systems HT has been testing lately. But i still cant see where those "insurmountable hurdles" for the squads lie. Only thing i can see is the refusal to switch teams... but that kind of loyality is pretty much foreign to me. (When i first started out AH ,i exclusively flew Knight with 71 Sqn - after i left them and for the first time switched and upped a plane as a Rook, i admittedly felt a little strange. To see all those unfamiliar callsigns in green.... to actually run into a knight icon thats RED.... but what can i say: I found out that i had missed out on 2/3rds of a great community.)


Id just like to understand here.... please let me know your views and ideas.


Respectfully,

Schatzi







Outlaw: HT stated that hed take down the new capture system untill he could figure out a new/different idea? He did listen to the no i think.

[daddog]

I dont really understand where the problem for the squads lies. This whole "we cant fly together anymore" has me just puzzled: If one country is marked as "full" for the arena, you can always take the WHOLE SQUAD over to the lower number side and set your coop up there.

I think you and many others that are not involved (maybe from a C.O. perspective) of a squad have a difficult time seeing the issues the changes have raised. I am not one to publicly disagree with HTC, but I am to the point of calling him or e-mailing him with the issues it raises with squads like ours.

You have to understand something about squads Schatzi. Squads are not toys you can just gather up in a bag and move to another part of the house to play. Squads are made up of individuals that at any given point would rather stay where they are because they made the choice to be where they are. When HTC separated the main arena into 4 different arenas he divided squads. Sure after a short period of time he coded it so the squad channel could work across the arena, he also gave us the .sr so you can find your squadies, but you can’t take away the fact that where squads were once always together they are not almost never all together. It used to be that our squad would have 15 to 25 on our Friday night in Squad Operations. Then during the week with one arena we might find 4 to 8 of us on to fly together. Now with the new system and multiple arena’s we might have 4 in the same arena. Usually just 1 or 2 of us. Unless I am on and call everyone together in the same arena they guys tend to do their own thing with 1 or 2 in each arena. Having multiple arenas reduces the cohesiveness of any squad. That is a given.

Now with his new proposal he expects squads to move to another country to fly together. Many players have no loyalty to any country, but at the same time many players relate to a country as their squad to some degree. This is especially true to those that are not associated with a squad. You might say you can always take the WHOLE SQUAD over to the lower number side and go from there but if it is difficult to get squads to fly together in the same arena why would you or anyone assume that it would be easy to get them to switch sides within an arena. What HTC has done now is not only divide up the single main room we all used to play in to 4 different rooms (Early War, Mid War, 2 Late Wars) he is making the move to further subdived each of those 4 rooms into three more rooms (Bishop, Knight, Rook).

I have not even touched on the issue of recruiting new members. Right now the ONLY way for our squad to communicate is via our squad channel, but how will potential members (those that have applied to our squad) possibly find any of us to fly with? They have to communicate on 132, but that is not a cross country channel, let alone a cross arena channel. We don’t add anyone to our squad until they have flown with us for several weeks and are voted on. These new steps make it very difficult squads to recruit new members. Frankly I don’t see how any small starting out squad will grow unless they just stick to the same arena all the time and hope they do not have to switch sides within that arena.

Look at those that are complaining Schatzi. It is mostly those that are attached to a squad or are involved with some kind of squad. These moves do nothing to build up squads Schatzi. Players on the HTC BB can spin it anyway they want. Even those at HTC can, but I can tell you for a fact that the move to multiple arenas, and this next move to balance game play is harmful to the cohesiveness of squads and if anyone tells you that is not true then it can only be for three reasons.

- They are in a small squad of 2 or 3 players and have no problem packing up and moving.
- They are not in any kind of leadership position in a good size squad.
- They are not in a squad and have no idea on what it takes to build one, run one, and keep one running smooth with 30 or more squad members.

I hope this helps you to understand the perspective of squads and why these changes by HTC have made things more difficult for those (squads) and us (my squad).

The trick is for me or someone to come up with an idea that will not hinder the development of squads yet help with the balance of play issues. Though frankly it was that way for years and I don’t understand why it has become an issue now.

I can’t answer your question Skernsk. Certainly not in a public forum.

[d0gma]

I'm not really sure what is happening over there at HTC, but all this experimentation is starting to grate on my nerves... I believe that it's been pretty detrimental to the squads, divisive to coop game play to some degree, and all-around a pain in the rear.

That being said, I think the most fun I've had playing AH2 were the snapshots and the FSOs.  I was very disappointed when the squad decided to stop doing FSOs, even though there were a few in a row that I didn't really enjoy (PTO squad ops just aren't as fun as ETO, not sure why).  I do understand why we did it and I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying when it was good, it was a great experience.

I really miss flying, mixing it up with squaddies and fighting in the organized events.  In light of the instability in the MAs, I'd like to respectfully suggest that we re-evaluate participating in FSO and/or making arrangements with other squads to maybe fight in the AvA or something outside of the arcadey-ness of the MA's, at least until we can know what to expect.

<S> all
d0g

[daddog]

I really miss flying, mixing it up with squaddies and fighting in the organized events.  In light of the instability in the MAs, I'd like to respectfully suggest that we re-evaluate participating in FSO and/or making arrangements with other squads to maybe fight in the AvA or something outside of the arcadey-ness of the MA's, at least until we can know what to expect.

The most fun I have had in AH was with the FSO. It was my intention to look at signing up again come next year. Not that far away. Problem was I could not stand to participate knowing all the garbage going on behind the lines, poor designs, poor management, poor attitudes esp towards me on the part of several CM's. Thankfully most of those guys are gone now from what I understand. Nef and I still disagree on some real important points, but I am willing to try FSO again come next year if most of the squad is willing to.

Certainly the main arena flying is not doing anything to keep our squad healthy.

[Ghosth]

I have to agree daddog.

After talking to outlaw on the phone for an hour I am really starting to wonder where HT is trying to take this. For years he knew that squadrons are what keeps a majority of his bread & better faithful. Why he seems to be turning away from this now I have no idea.

Schatzi, ok imagine that your a mongrel. You log into an arena on a  friday night with another 20 - 25 dogs. No matter what side you pick, or what arena you pick. You just unbalanced sides enough to incur a healthy ENY penalty. The only possible exception would be late war blue. That is assuming we could even get IN there now that everyone else is there.

So where are we supposed to go as a squad?

Early war, mid war, forget it. We are either land grabbing with lousy planes and no opposition.
Or we are stuck on defense getting scattered all over the map.

As much as I hate to say it, I'd be willing to try FSO after the first of the year if you can stand it daddog. While it wasn't great at the end it was better than this.

I've been so disenchanted that I have not flown at all for the last 2 weeks.
And every change seems to be headed in the wrong direction.

Suggestions

Combine early & mid war, make it a 2 front war. Just leave one side OUT of it. Side balance is just that much easier. Disable early & mid war planes in late war. If you want to fly any ride released before 44 make em come to that arena. Enabling all planes in the LWA's just doomed the early war arena's. The one time HT should have held firm, he bowed to pressure. Everywhere else where he should be listening & adjusting to pressure he's holding firm. I don't get it.

Next, raise the  caps on both Late war arena's to at least 500. Then sit back for a couple of weeks and let people vote with their feet! 

After that every tour try one new arena setup, preferably taking the features most asked for from the HTC forums. At the end of the tour the arena that gets the least amount of use gets dumped . Except for the TA & SEA of course. If that means replacing the A vs A arena for a no capture furball arena for a tour, fine, so be it.

Next if your going to have an arena it needs a decent stable of both perked & unperked planes.
Those need to be adjusted a couple of times in the first week to find out what works and what doesn't. Mid war should have a whole variety of late war planes at a reasonable perk price.

Everything from the F4u-1c to a perked la7. Like the lancaster in the EWA, perfect setup. But we need MORE of them.

Next they need to listen, if the Hurri IIc is unbalanced in the EWA they need to try perking it at 2 - 4 perks.

Also, bomb damage needs to be setup different for early war than late war.
Early war planes are just not capable of carrying the big loads it takes to be effective.
This needs to be reflected in arena setup.
This should IMO be one of the easiest fixes for the 2 early war arena's. But its not been adressed by HTC at ALL!

This makes a HUGE difference in gameplay. Yet no one seems to want to do the work.

[Simaril]

Sorry DD and Ghost, but I disagree.

I just dont see the problem -- unless you are 100% committed to a particular country and arena.

Right now, when I log on I just check /.sr to see where everybody is. Then I go there. In the future, if an arena is capped, I can go to a different one, and use the squad channel to let everyone know about the problem. If Nits are overwhelming an arena, then why stay there anyway? There are fewer targets to hit, and more friendlies to steal them!

And taking a base without opposition isnt challenging -- which means it isnt as rewarding.

Anyway, for squad nights we can get an idea from experience what arena is generally open to Knights for that time/date, and make it our "home" arena. Swithc around when possible, but you get the idea.

As for squad growth, well, it seems to me that we've had a good number of "fly-withs" and joins since we left FSO. DD, I remember you being excited once or twice at the much higher than usual turnouts. Again, I dont see the problem.


I do ahve to say that I find the arenas a LOT more fun than FSO, mostly because of the one life thing. I die way too fast in FSO, and because of that I never got to know anybody through the FSO experience. Relationship building is a lot easier with the multiple life setup -- just the way it is.

[Teedog]

 Normally I try staying even keel, and going with whatever the squad wants to do. But, for me personally, I really miss FSO. The past few weeks I have flown on Friday, it only seems like a big squad night in a free for all. For some reason I love the planning and doing a mission in Squad Ops. Being it only a one life flight makes it even more challenging. We all can find time to furball. If you look at last Friday night…. the best part about the whole night was when we all jumped into bombers to bomb a field as a group, IMHO. The only problem was it only lasted on 15 minutes and then we all went our own way.

Here’s some things we might want to look into.

#1 I really think we need to go back to flying in FSO again. I believe that event alone brings the squad together. It also brings people to leadership roles if someone wants to lead a mission. I know they have made changes in FSO the past month, and hopefully for the best. I understand because of what had happen in FSO we needed to leave…and that was the best thing at the time… But maybe it's time to go back. I know it wasn't good over there... but I think it's better then what we have now.

#2. One idea I have is we should look into having set times of the day where we fly together in. This would not be a required Squad night… but every night from say 6-9 EST everyone who’s online flying most fly together as a squad in the assigned arena for the week. I understand that not everyone wants to fly in the same arena as everyone else… but at least for an 1 to 3 hour period during the day they maybe can. I don’t know if this could work under the new guidelines AH has now… but it might help.

The best thing is for us to fly together and this might mean we have to assigned special times of the day for us to do this. I think it’s very important that we fly in FSO or some kind of event. 

I know I don't fly all the time, and might not have the best ideas, or ideas that are that important, but FSO was always important for me and all my fine memories of flying online as a squad happen in there. When I would get the orders, I would print them out and have everything ready for Friday night... That right now is taken away from me. When I was first looking to join a squad, that is what I looked for. Luckly I found the Mongrels, and will fly in any arena they want too. But I would rather fly with the Mongrels in FSO.

[Simaril]

I have kinda thought that the squad night activities might go better with approaches that work better in the MA environment -- where timing is everything. Most missions we've run havent taken the time/response factor into consideration well.

For example, I remember once when we sent 2-3 guys ahead to deack, with time on target a full 3-5 minutes before the group arrived. That mission was dead before it took off, just becuase we let the enemy know where we'd be hitting...and we gave opportunity for gradual response by the enemy to succeed. OTOH, if everybody hit within 1-2 minutes the suppression fighters would have been overwhelming, so uppers couldnt get anywhere.

Taking down hangars will not affect a capture AT ALL unless it is coupled with enough force to kill the town and suppress fighters already up. If we dont have that much force available WHEN THE HANGARS GO DOWN, then use the bombers on the town and let fighters suppress what takes off. (VH needs to go down regardless, unless we have vehicle campers there).

I especially feel that we need to get REAL wingman tactics in play, even if they're simple "loose deuce." Effective fighter teamwork is EXTRAORDINARILY rare in the arenas; but if we could simply define and practice wingman roles, we would plain harvest the opposition. Those skills would make us a force in the FSO as well...and there's no better way to practice than in the arenas, against real opponents, with renewable lives.

[daddog]

Right now, when I log on I just check /.sr to see where everybody is. Then I go there. In the future, if an arena is capped, I can go to a different one, and use the squad channel to let everyone know about the problem.

Your making the assumption that everyone else in the squad does that Sim. Believe me they don’t. You also assuming that once you get on the squad channel and let your squadies know you could not get in the LW arena that everyone will follow you to the mid/early war arena. They won’t. Players and squadies tend to be sedentary by nature. Once they move in to a certain arena they resist moving again. Just more time switching, more time in the tower, more time climbing out to a fight. Nor does this address the issue of non squadies that want to join our squad, but can’t find us because we are scatted all over the place.

As for squad growth, well, it seems to me that we've had a good number of "fly-withs" and joins since we left FSO. DD, I remember you being excited once or twice at the much higher than usual turnouts. Again, I don’t see the problem.

Your right I have. We had a turn out in the main arena a few weeks ago that was very high. Frankly I attribute that to members showing up to see what the changes were about and like you the multiple lives we now have on a squad night. Remember (or maybe I was not clear) these issues are not so much about our squad night, but more about the other 6 nights of the week, but if we project ahead I think the current changes can and will affect even our squad nights.

I especially feel that we need to get REAL wingman tactics in play, even if they're simple "loose deuce.

I agree. You can blame me for that. Just takes time and work and I don’t have a lot of it during the school year. On that note it also takes squadies flying/winging together on a regular basis. Even when we are in the same arena and same side I rarely see squadies actually “wing” together. More often they just fly in the same general area.

More on this later.

[outlaw]

sorry Schatzi but IMO he's not. it not just the base capture system it's the number caps it's the splitting of the LW's arena's it's everything he's done to try to fix something that can not be fixed. uneven number tho i agree are a problem they are a fact of life in every MMOG that puts one country against another. it's been that way from day one of AW and WB till today. the one thing he could of done right from the beginning is the new vic conditions it would of stopped the alliance's and the gangbanging of one country right then and there. ya you can dictate which country one can fly with AW did it right before their demise. people play games to have fun not to be told where and what they have to do. now you can say he's not doing that but he is. limiting ones choices is as good as telling one to do what you want. you can say he is trying to stop the milk runners but to milk run you don't need to capture a base so these changes in the capture system are not going to stop it.you can say he is trying to get the furballers and the land grabbers to work together but he's not. in the orange arena the only difference's was the fact the furballers where the ones switching from one furball to another depending on which one had hangers up on the opposite side.if there would of only been one late war arena in the last few month's instead of 2 the numbers would of been less uneven then what they became. case in point the other night logged in blue had 100 bish 70 rooks and around 60 knights. orange had around 80 knights 70 rooks and 50 bish. now if that would of been one arena the numbers tho still unbalanced would of been closer.

Sorry DD and Ghost, but I disagree.

I just don't see the problem -- unless you are 100% committed to a particular country and arena.

.

here's the part you forgot to look at. the 332nd is a 30 member squad now we have yet to have all 30 members show up on line at once and i understand the chances of it happening is slim. but we do quite often field 20+ at one time. add to this the number of guest that fly with us and we will under the current system be penalized when ever we fly in force. before it was eny fact and don't kid your self into thinking it just the matter of finding the arena side with the lowest number way of going to make it easy. with the lower over all numbers in the arenas when 20 members of any squad come into a arena it will change the balance of power in what ever arena for what ever country they decide to fly for. i can think back a few weeks ago when the 332nd on a squad night made up 70% of the entire knight forces on a map. but more often then not we will take a country from being the lowest maned country to being the highest manned country just by showing up. now this wouldn't be to bad in a 400+ arena to where we would only add about 5% to overall player count but when your talking about walking into a arena and bumping it's overall player count by 10% not to mention some country counts by to 70% but more an average of 25% it means a good deal.now add in that instead of getting restricted on planes you got guys sitting in the tower waiting to even just get in....

now we got talk of going back to FSO. not a bad idea but lets step back here guys. go back and read the forums about why we left in the first place. have any of the problems we left for been addressed? has the feelings of the squad changed? or is it just grasping at straws trying to find something about the current state of AH to light the fire again?

as for me i have asked for and been granted an extended R&R from the C.O. and have not renewed my subscription to AH and will not until things have settled down at which time i will return and see if HT's game can be enjoyable again. but for now it's just not something i can support.

[d0gma]

Outlaw, buddy, I am sorry to see you go, always enjoy flying with and learning from you. <S>!

As for the imbalance problem, HT has just managed to exacerbate it by splitting the arenas... I know why he did it, but it brought what was previously a relatively minor issue (the imbalance issue) to the forefront for two simple reasons:

1.  Pure numbers: Having 20 more of one country doesn't mean much when there are 500 people on.  It's much more obvious when there are 20 more of one country in an arena of 200 players. Like Outlaw said, it's simple ratios. I'm surprised that this hasn't occurred to the guys at HT (or maybe it has and it's just less important than multiple arenas).

2. Leavers:  Someone on HT's board brought this up and got royally flamed for it but it is true and makes the problem essentially unfixable.  When a country is down in numbers and getting its butt kicked, people will leave to find a fairer fight, getting swarmed is NO FUN.  I've watched it happen.  It's even worse when there's an imbalance in another arena with a different country.

FSO
I agree that it might be wise to check and see if FSO is any better than it was when we left... that being said, I wouldn't know how to really gauge that without playing...  my personal opinion is that MA play is not very much fun for me, lately it's been either 1. fly for 1/2 hour in MW or EW to find a fight or 2.  get gang-banged by no-skill dweebs in the LWAs...  I'm nearly to the point where I might want to take a break as well until things smooth out, nearly, but not quite.  I don't really enjoy the plan-on-a-stick MA squad night, it doesn't seem very organized, and in contrast to FSOs and other structured events, there are quite a few different factors that can throw a monkey wrench into the fun-factor, more than a couple of which have been created by HT in the last 2 months.

It may very well be that FSO isn't any better than it was.  However, in my opinion MA play has gotten to the point that FSO looks like a pretty fun option even if it hasn't gotten any better.

Winging up
I would like to fly with squaddies more in the MA's but hardly ever see anyone besides Outlaw (who I'm sad to see go), the guys who spend all their time in the TA, and a few others like Simaril and maddog.  I would like to work and develop my wingman skills so if you see me logged in, give me a holler and I'll be there (if you want to)... Have to say sometimes it seems like some guys don't want to wing up... maybe it's my skill level that's a drag or just my personality, if so I'm sorry.  Perhaps it's just that I'm not aggressive enough in suggesting a wingup.  But that's why I joined this squad, to fly with friends.

[daddog]

Have to say sometimes it seems like some guys don't want to wing up... maybe it's my skill level that's a drag or just my personality, if so I'm sorry.  Perhaps it's just that I'm not aggressive enough in suggesting a wingup.  But that's why I joined this squad, to fly with friends.

It is not you dogma. It is the nature of the beast. I think most want to just fly and do what they want to do. Winging up means communication beyond the chatter and jokes we usually do with one another. Winging up means being responsible for someone other than yourself. Winging up means more work. Winging up means planning, thinking ahead, compromise. Winging is not 2nd nature.

I for one will try to make a point of winging up and working together with who ever is on. 

[Dichodog]

I'd rather wing up than fly alone... my skillset makes me hesitant to do so because I don't want to get someone killed while I flop around in the sky.  Bottom line from where I'm at is I enjoy whatever we do.  MA... okay, FSO... okay, doesn't really mean a hill of beans to me.  I'd like to see some preplanned MA missions  and even did a little homework on my suggestion yesterday (yes I actually upped a p51 and timed how long it takes to get to 30k with twin drops and how long it took to fly a sector in varying flight conditions... same with a 17) and I'll be working more on that during the week to try to come up with decent battle plan in the coming weeks.  Other than that if it's not a squad op I'm generally in the TA either chasing better pilots than me or watching them sit behind me and giggle at my ineptitude.  The MA I'll go to once in a while but it's either fly for 30 minutes to get popped out of the sky without actually getting in a good engagement or getting vulched while trying to up at a field under attack.  Great for the instant adrenaline fix but other than that more of an annoyance than anything. 

Ahh well with this group of guys eventually I'm betting we can find a winning combo.  Just remember team effectiveness doesn't mean we all have to 100% agree on an idea but if you can give it a 6 or better give it a shot, do some honest after action reporting with what worked and what didn't, and see what shakes out of it.

[skernsk]

Wingman tactics are a good idea.  I am always willing to wing up...just ask.  The only rule I have is that YOU lead.  I am a better wing and lead.  Also, over time you will find that certain squaddies will be better fits for you as a wing.  I get along best with Argyll in that I know his style and he knows mine.  Also we know each other in real life and I know he aint gonna get all pissy and log out if I mess up and get him killed.

I had an issue a couple years back in another squad where I had a player curse and sweat at me for not shooting a guy off his tail.  I will never do that, the day I do is the day I leave this squad....in shame.

One last thing.  When we get 25 guys online it is very freaking hard for all to wing up and fight.  some players are vox hogs, and you can't get a word in when you need to.  I have learned to jump in quick on vox and say 'dogma you are clear' in the midst of a fight so that the player getting ready for a shot need not look back and can focus 100% on the shot.  By doing that every 20 seconds or so, I minimize the chatter.  Another thing I automatically do is place my wingman (whoever that is) on private text in the first radio box.  This is the best way to communicate when not in a furball.

Have you guys forgotten about the monthly wingman competition.  Find a squadie, pick the same plane and try and land some kills.  There is a cool little ribbon in it for you if you win also.

As for FSO.  I miss it for the squad cohesion.  With a work we could easily have the same cohesion in the MA.  But not until HTC stops changing things every week.  We have found that the early and mid war arenas are porked with is in there unbalancing the numbers.  That leaves late war which will now be even harder for us to get together as a group of 20+ unless we can find an arena with enough room in it. 

Glad I am just a Mongrel who is taking the orders and not having to come up with the plans.

[Simaril]

Well, I jsut spent the entire evening playing as a Nit in the Late war Orange. And if thats any indication, we have nothing to worry about....

Because we could have fit the entire 32 man squad into the nIts without any problem at all. We were down 80 to 80 to 40 most of the night!

As they say, a target rich environment!


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As to winging...well, I think its a learned art in most cases. Even though I love the idea of the teamwork, its not easy to get the "click" right. The only person I've been effective with as a wingman is my brother, Hack9. When we fly together, we just deem to know how to communicate, what to do, how to cover each other.

My son, who's stinking good at gaming, doesnt make a good wingman most of the time. He's an instinctive flier, he's aggressive, and he reacts to the situation well -- but he's so used to being the leader of a shooting team that he is very hard to stay with.

It's been a long time since I tried to read up on wingman tactics. I'll do that, and see if I can get a few principles of action that we can apply. Just an outline, setting up the roles and responsibilities...and I bet that would make a huge difference. I'l follow up later on this, since I think it would change the feel enormously to have pairs and sections working together.

[d0gma]

Here's an AAR from tonight:

Logged into LWOrange, saw that maddog and Simaril and Mand0s were in there.  Knights were getting SLAUGHTERED. Literally. 100 bish, 100 rook, 60 knights.  It was pretty bad.  BoPs were having a squad night or something over bish side... Knights didn't stand a chance. Unable to find anything resembling a fair fight and getting pretty riled up, I logged over to MW, where I found rowdy1 working with Olds 694 in TT island.

Even though the numbers still weren't even (I think it was 27bish 34knights 39rooks), it wasn't up to what I like to call 'steamroller critical mass'.  Much better fights, a little swarmy at times, but much more fun.  Thanks rowdy and Olds for flyin with me.  Olds is getting very good and has a great attitude (unlike me tonight).

I'm almost to the point where flying in LateWar doesn't interest me. It's everything that sucked about the old MA times 10.  The imbalances are bigger, the swarms are bigger, the dweebery is more prevalent too.

Two things I am going to do starting the next time I log in.  I will no longer tune 200 and I will no longer fight in badly unbalanced arenas, regardless of whether knights are high or low.  I can tell you one thing, I'm not about to pay $15 a month on a game that does nothing but tick me off constantly. I've got a JOB, if I need more frustration, I'll just stay late...  I have had a lot of fun with the Mongrels and I hope to have much more... lately I am having a hard time finding fun in the game... and someone needs to tell HiTech and the guys that it's not just the loudmouths on the BBS, it's a LOT of people and all this change stuff is not good for the base.

I am sure that I don't know what is involved in being a wingman or even HAVING a wingman.  But I want to learn.  Anybody written  anything down yet that I can read while I'm sposed to be working?

Ohh my sleeping pill is kicking in so off to bed go I.

<S> all

Dicho you need to fly more with me bro.

[d0gma]

As to winging...well, I think its a learned art in most cases. Even though I love the idea of the teamwork, its not easy to get the "click" right. The only person I've been effective with as a wingman is my brother, Hack9. When we fly together, we just deem to know how to communicate, what to do, how to cover each other.

My son, who's stinking good at gaming, doesnt make a good wingman most of the time. He's an instinctive flier, he's aggressive, and he reacts to the situation well -- but he's so used to being the leader of a shooting team that he is very hard to stay with.

It's been a long time since I tried to read up on wingman tactics. I'll do that, and see if I can get a few principles of action that we can apply. Just an outline, setting up the roles and responsibilities...and I bet that would make a huge difference. I'l follow up later on this, since I think it would change the feel enormously to have pairs and sections working together.

According to the movie Top Gun, in order to bond as wingmen you have to drink heavily together, hit on women in the most cheesy fashion possible, and then make up overly macho yet vaguely gay callsigns for each other.

Sooo....

[Dichodog]

well the callsigns we got
I'm happily married so I'm a good wingman
ummm...

I think we got the makings of a good team

Ddog posted a wingman manual of sorts not long ago.. I'll have to find it

[Schatzi]

I would like to thank you all for your input. Id was exactly what i was looking/hoping for - ideas, opinions and concetps about this without the need to belittle, flame or abuse anyone else for their different opinion. I knew i could come here to get that. <S> Mongrels - its a pity you guys live on the wrong side of the pond .

The trick is for me or someone to come up with an idea that will not hinder the development of squads yet help with the balance of play issues. Though frankly it was that way for years and I don’t understand why it has become an issue now.

I fully agree Daddog. Im not vocal about this publicly, but I am very much concerned about the changes in Aces High community i have seen over the last weeks/months. But to be very honest, I do not think it all began with the changes HT made. This subtle shift i felt started long before that, the changes just brought it out in the open more. Unfortunatly, im kind of at a loss to the whys and hows of the shifting, or how to prevent them.

I realise im a pretty young member of this community, but from the friends i made and from my own take on the game, i almost feel like a member of the "old crew" at times. Its that "old crew" that ive seen dwindling.... more and more new guys coming in, that are less about the people and community and more about the game part of AH. You can always hit the little X when you dont like what you get?

Often the question gets raised what the difference between AH and AW is. If you ask me about the difference between AW and this new type of AH player: AW was about friends meeting online to have fun, fight, pound their chests and try to get the other ones sheep. newAH is about being some online cool guy playing a flight sim. And i say this only knowing AW from what i hear people say about "the old times".

[Schatzi]

Outlaw, im sorry to see you go, youve always been fun to fly with and a formidable opponent.
Take care and hopefully see you back when all this mess is sorted out.

<S>

[d0gma]

Often the question gets raised what the difference between AH and AW is. If you ask me about the difference between AW and this new type of AH player: AW was about friends meeting online to have fun, fight, pound their chests and try to get the other ones sheep. newAH is about being some online cool guy playing a flight sim. And i say this only knowing AW from what i hear people say about "the old times".

Schatzi,

You don't know how right you are.  I think there is a dynamic nowadays in online gaming, it's the ugly "anonymous jerk" syndrome combined with the "CounterStrike Kid", makes for someone who doesn't care about community or friendship,  just kills and gloating.  AW was not like that, in fact, no online games were like that.

[Ghosth]

AH wasn't like that either.

In fact I can tell you exactly when our community here started slipping.
It was the same month that AW shut down and we had a mass exodus of ex AW flyers learning AH.

Unlike everyone else up to that point that joined, they had enough numbers, friends, etc that they did not have to make any real changes. They moved over enmass, kept the same squads, cliches, values, etc. They did not have to make any adjustments to "fit" into our community.
And if they did they screamed bloody murder about it.

Now, that being said I have several good friends and trainers that came over at that time.
Do I blame them, no, never, wasn't their fault. But AH incorperated too much too fast for the community to stay on top of.

Before that point the AH community was small enough to be self policing.
After it the community struggled, and tried, and tried again.
But something was gone, and we couldn't get it back.

After that point it was a run away train. There is no question that its going to derail, its just a question of how far it goes. Well I'd say that train is a rocken & a rollin through the cuves now.

What happens next? Well thats a good question, and worth while for me to stick around and find out.