Thoughts on line abreast?

[daddog]

I have always wanted to formalize our wingman flying. These are some basic tactics we could consider.

http://www.56thfightergroup.org/tac.html

[Ghosth]

The problem with that daddog IMO is that you end up with pilots who are so busy trying to hold formation. That they miss the bunch of cons coming down at you out of the sun.

I'd rather have the gaggle with everyones eyes on a swivel.

If you track the actual use of formation flying in combat. You see a progression to less regimentation as the war progressed.  Pilots were allowed more freedom to decide what formation, and how tight.

I would like to see us flying more as groups of 4. But that does make it harder to coordinate when the enemy shows up with 20 spits.  It all turns into a furball once the bullets starts flying anyway.

Don't get me wrong, some of what they are promoting does make sense. Especially for the p47 and less flexible fighters. But our better pilots do this already. Rather than try to change the way everyone fly's wingman i'd rather see us put more emphasis on training our newer pilots with good wingman tatics.  But thats just my opinion, your the boss.  
 

[daddog]

Np. Looking for feed back. I do know the 57th FG guys who fly those jugs do "real" well and it is due to their wingman tactics. We have never really pushed that or had a specific set of rules to guide us. Just was thinking we ought to. Still thinking...

[starbird]

The big thing is to practice together. When I was in a quake clan, we would play just about everyday. This was back when everyone had dialup and voice comms were just beginning to be used. Eventually it came to the point where I would know what everyone else would do, and could trust that they could handle what was coming at them. If one of them died, I would know where they were and expect where the enemy would be coming from.  There really was no need to type during the round, we just knew what to do from practice.

Its a bit different in AH, where there is no set map or hiding spots, but I think the effect would be the same. If you practice enough with eachother you get to know the stregnths of your squad.

Once a week or whenever you can get enough people online, go into the TA or DA, split everyone into 2 teams, pick a FL for the night and go after eachother. Rotate the teams and FL's every week. That way things are more structured than fighting in the MA, and you can get an idea of peoples strengths and weaknesses. If someone wants to improve where they are lacking, they can talk to ghosth or someone that specializes in a certain area. If not, that ok beacuse now your squad will know what situations will get you into trouble, and can help out without needing to be asked. It becomes instinctive.

The big thing is to not to become so structured that a ranking system comes out of it, or someone is deterred beacuse they arn't as good as someone else. In the end, we'll all be on the same team during events.

On the flip side, you don't want it to become a general melee and waste an hour when you can be getting experience working as a team.

If the whole thing works out, you can start mixing it up by taking 2 people vs 4 or 6, and simulate a group of scouts finding a squad and learn how to  harass and survive, or set one team up as bombers and others as interceptors to learn how to attack bombers sucessfully.

The big thing is to not make it a requirement (but highly recommended), not keep scores and make it fun for everyone.

[Ghosth]

Very good post starbird & I very much agree.

The more time a given pair have flying together they better they know each other. Knowing what the other guy will & won't do in a situation makes your job much easier.

Wed & thurs nights in the TA are a good place to start. We had Forhim, Carbheat, Hamerd1 & myself last week. Made for some good 2 on 2's.
Plus we try to talk things out a bit afterwords. Why did this work, and that didn't etc.

Looks like we'll have skernsk this week. Everyone is welcome!
If you have specific problems give me a yell and we can work on those ahead of time or while the others are getting warmed up.

Last, back to daddogs original post. I was pretty close with ammo for quite a while after he left the mongrels. As a result I had a pretty good chance to see exactly how those guys got to where they are.

First off they were flying EVERY night. Next, they would roll together, if you died you stayed in the tower till everyone was down! This actually has a couple of benifits. As the down time really motivates you to do better next time.  While giving you time to rethink what you did wrong last time.

While I can see why you would like to emulate that daddog. Fact is we are talking apples & oranges here. We fly 1 night a week, and we never have the same guys 3 weeks in a row. Yes we have a few good regulars, but not enough of them. And its never going to be  the same as a group that flys for 2 hours every night in the main.

I think getting our training program back on track is going to be the biggest single positive factor.  Wed & thurs nights work best for me so thats when I'm going to give my push. But every single one of you old timers can do the exact same thing I'm doing!

Pick a time that works for you, a place, post it, when someone shows up post results. Can be the TA, DA, MA, CT.

Or show up & help me, lord knows I can use the help.
(Big TY btw to forhim for last week.)

BTW, are we doing a KOTH this fri night?
This is potentially another good thing, one that will help us see where we need work. Anything that gets us flying with & around each other makes us stronger.

Maybe we should try a "wingmans KOTH" Where you pick a wingman and the object is for both of you to stay alive & work together.

If you lose your wingman you are out of the fight & auger.
Then rotate wingmen & do it again.
 

[starbird]

Line abreast would seem to work best for scouts, or groups of 2. The luftwaffe used it as a way to stay in formation and be able to cover your wingman. If someone was coming up on your 6, your wingman could see them even if you couldn't. It also makes it hard to tell who is the leader, and gives the person not being attacked an oppotunity to follow the attacker ( I think Shaw has a lot of examples of this).

In terms of AH, I would say stick 1 - 1.5k apart, that way you don't have to worry too much about staying in formation. You can cover more area, and be sure to check in the direction of your wingman for other scouts trying to sneak up on you.